Are bpal blends all-natural?

[starfish327]

Right. And this can change even from month to month. Honey used to be awful on me, but now I looove it. Natural based perfumery is more susceptible to change than big house traditional perfumery, because it lacks the stabilizing fixatives and synthetics, so there is a LOT of trial and error.

 

To add to this, it's common that the way perfume reacts to your body chemistry changes around your period. It can also depend on and differ with changes in your diet, stress level, activity level, and many other factors.

 

oh yeah. anything with even a hint of amber or incense turns into the exact same scent on my skin for three days of the month. it's more than slightly annoying.

[Dark Alice]

 

 

 

 

"May you enjoy whatever floats your boat and refrain from stepping on my grilled cheese while doing it. I mean that in the friendliest way possible. "~saralaughs

 

 

 

You are my favorite person for this. And this sums up all I have to say on the issue.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Dark Alice

[jayne]

I'm certain the mall scents...lack creativity. I prefer not to smell like everyone else.

 

Besides, I can not stand how [fancy house, commerical perfumes] are mass marketed with little to no real inspiration.

 

 

I'm sorry but that sentiment makes me really angry.

 

This is exactly what you accuse BPAL of doing. So maybe you should sit back a minute and think of whether we should be just as mad at you.

 

Beth takes enormous amounts of pride in her work and will take YEARS to perfect a blend. It is RIDICULOUSLY insulting to say that she just slaps together fragrance oils like a generic chain candle maker. You should have read the FAQ and About Us sections of the site, and the FAQ section of this board before you started making judgements.

 

 

You know... I would really take what you said more seriously if BPAL didn't produce hundreds of fragrances every year for the exact same (very low) price. The people on Luca Turin's blog had a point about the basic logistics/economics of it all. I'm trying to do the reading suggested by some very nice commenters but so far I'm still left uneasy.

 

And for the record, while I did quote people who compared bpal to velveeta, I never endorsed their view.

Edited January 26, 2010 by jayne

[starfish327]

I'm certain the mall scents...lack creativity. I prefer not to smell like everyone else.

 

Besides, I can not stand how [fancy house, commerical perfumes] are mass marketed with little to no real inspiration.

 

 

I'm sorry but that sentiment makes me really angry.

 

This is exactly what you accuse BPAL of doing. So maybe you should sit back a minute and think of whether we should be just as mad at you.

 

Beth takes enormous amounts of pride in her work and will take YEARS to perfect a blend. It is RIDICULOUSLY insulting to say that she just slaps together fragrance oils like a generic chain candle maker. You should have read the FAQ and About Us sections of the site, and the FAQ section of this board before you started making judgements.

 

 

You know... I would really take what you said more seriously if BPAL didn't produce hundreds of fragrances every year for the exact same (very low) price. The people on Luca Turin's blog had a point about the basic logistics/economics of it all. I'm trying to do the reading suggested by so far I'm still left uneasy.

 

And for the record, while I did quote people who compared bpal to velveeta, I never endorsed their view.

 

 

just out of curiosity, why? you still haven't said why that makes a difference to you.

 

and they NOT all the same price. it may not be an astronomical difference but the more complex LEs do run at least 2 to 5 dollars more expensive.

 

okay i'm going to expand on my line of thought on this, with a medium i'm much more comfortable with.

 

i'm a handspinner- i spin my own yarn. you can have fiber A costing $10 an ounce from one 'house' and costing anywhere between $10 and $20 an ounce from other 'houses'. there can be some discernible difference, but generally it's a matter of production cost, not quality. if fiber A comes out of a house where it's say $2 an ounce i might be concerned but i'll try it first before i start saying that it's too cheap to be quality because everyone else sells it at a higher margin.

 

if there's fiber B, with fiber B being a blended line that's being sold at $10 an ounce but everyone else is selling at higher prices based on colors, if anything, i'd be concerned that there was so much variation for essentially the same product, especially if other 'houses' are selling at roughly the same price point (which BPAL is for its market, actually). meaning that i'd be wondering if they're sinking their money into packaging and advertising as opposed to the actual product and are inflating their costs that way. i want to pay for the product, not the reputation. i actually got into bpal because someone gave me imps randomly a couple of years ago.

Edited January 26, 2010 by starfish327

[persianmouse]

I'm certain the mall scents...lack creativity. I prefer not to smell like everyone else.

 

Besides, I can not stand how [fancy house, commerical perfumes] are mass marketed with little to no real inspiration.

 

 

I'm sorry but that sentiment makes me really angry.

 

Aww...that's so horrid that someone would disparage something you enjoy, based on nothing else but their opinion. And say it right to your face. How awful.

 

Do you need a hug?

 

[jayne]

Seriously though, I didn't mean to offend but I was expressing myself in a true fashion and how I feel just as you did in your first post. No hard feelings. Maybe you should tell us a bit about your favorite notes and we could possibly point you in the right direction as far as blends to try. The ladies here are extremely helpful and very lovely when it comes to enabling.

 

May you enjoy whatever floats your boat and refrain from stepping on my grilled cheese while doing it. I mean that in the friendliest way possible.

 

Ok, ok. Fair enough. I suppose we can both stand a bit of honest from the other side, however misinformed we think each other are. Thanks for keeping it civil.

 

Notes that I like? Hmm.

 

Amber, incense, smoke. Grass and woods (sandlewood, cedar, cyprus). Vetiver. Cardamom. Vanilla. Lavender. Citrus, but not too heavy.

Edited January 26, 2010 by jayne

[persianmouse]

You know... I would really take what you said more seriously if BPAL didn't produce hundreds of fragrances every year for the exact same (very low) price. The people on Luca Turin's blog had a point about the basic logistics/economics of it all. I'm trying to do the reading suggested by some very nice commenters but so far I'm still left uneasy.

 

And for the record, while I did quote people who compared bpal to velveeta, I never endorsed their view.

 

Well, when you don't spend a lot of money on mass-marketing and fancy bottles and celebrity endorsements, its probably fairly easy to keep your costs down.

 

Also, not all BPAL is the same price. BPAL can run anywhere from $15-$27.00 on average.

 

[cometgirl21]

Persianmouse, need you make fun of everyone? It's not necessary. You don't agree with the original poster, but it doesn't mean you have to insult her. Obviously, she enjoys commercial perfumes like we enjoy BPAL. It's not a bad thing and she is entitled to her opinion, just as much as your entitled to yours. And there's no reason to be sarcastic and mock her. However, you dohave a point. Bottles and packaging make up a great deal of the price, despite the product. You also pay for the name of the brand and if there's a celebrity endorsement, you can bet the price will go up. It can be perfume, clothing, handbags, make-up. Doesn't make a difference. You're not always paying for quality.

 

In response to the original poster. Try the perfumes first and make your opinion. If you don't like them, that's fine. But at least you tried them. And try not to let what anyone else says affect how you feel about them. Keep in mind though, oils are different than commercial perfumes. They're not low end cheap stuff. They're just different. And both are good in their own way. I still love some of my commercial perfumes. But BPAL plays different on the skin. Test them on your skin before you toss them aside. The components change when they hit your skin. It may be a change you like or it may be a get it off feeling. Either one is fine, but at least you tried it. Of course, there's been commercial perfumes that have done that to me as well. Some work, some I want to scrub my skin off to get rid of the fragrance (Chanel No 5 did that to me. High end perfume. Smells like crap on me). In terms of ingredients, I don't know what Beth uses, so I can't say anything there.

Edited January 26, 2010 by gothicangel18

[IridiumFlash]

You know... I would really take what you said more seriously if BPAL didn't produce hundreds of fragrances every year for the exact same (very low) price. The people on Luca Turin's blog had a point about the basic logistics/economics of it all. I'm trying to do the reading suggested by some very nice commenters but so far I'm still left uneasy.

 

Charging the same price for various fragrances does not mean that the profit margin is identical for each. And from a business point of view it makes sense to have one basic price point. That makes transactions so much easier! As long as the price covers the average cost of components, it really doesn't matter. And I'll assume that Beth & company are good enough businesspeople to track the cost of components (and other costs of doing business) vs the price they're charging and adjust the catalog price if necessary in order to stay in business.

 

Also, not all the blends are the same price. LEs cost more, and there are also some charitable-cause fragrances that cost even more than the LEs (in part because of the charity-contribution component in the price).

 

[starfish327]

Seriously though, I didn't mean to offend but I was expressing myself in a true fashion and how I feel just as you did in your first post. No hard feelings. Maybe you should tell us a bit about your favorite notes and we could possibly point you in the right direction as far as blends to try. The ladies here are extremely helpful and very lovely when it comes to enabling.

 

May you enjoy whatever floats your boat and refrain from stepping on my grilled cheese while doing it. I mean that in the friendliest way possible.

 

Ok, ok. Fair enough. I suppose we can both stand a bit of honest from the other side, however misinformed we think each other are. Thanks for keeping it civil.

 

Notes that I like? Hmm.

 

Amber, incense, smoke. Grass and woods (sandlewood, cedar, cyprus). Vetiver. Cardamom. Vanilla. Lavender. Citrus, but not too heavy.

 

 

you'd like most everything that i've liked then: st. john's eve, the great sword of war, akuma, dee, nephilim, torture king (but torture king's getting increasingly hard to find but black death's supposed to be similar).

[Sapphy]

Jayne, I think its all about taste, and where else can you find so many different scents that are affordable enough for anyone to try?

 

Well... I'm not trying to disparage BPAL or anything. Honestly, I just started learning about it recently. But I've been buying $3 samples from The Perfumed Court for the past year. I can get just about anything from there. BPAL is actually a little more expensive.

 

I don't think it matters if BPAL makes the oils they use. I paint and certainly don't make my own paints. I could, but why would anyone want to waste the time when they could focus on mixing what's already there?

 

I guess I've just been immersed in the world of traditional perfumery for awhile. People take a lot of pride in craftsmanship, on assembling their perfumes molecule by molecule or using the finest essential oils. Maybe I am being a bit prejudiced...

 

This is what I was referring to. You're implying that Beth doesn't take pride in her work because she isn't in traditional perfumery. That's insulting.

 

And since several people have answered your question, and you still seem to be unwilling to take the answers at face value, I don't know what you want us to say. You basically just told me you either think that I'm mistaken or that I'm lying because there is no way in the world perfume could be that cheap otherwise. It's seeming like the only answer you want is that BPAL is an etailer that buys preblended fragrance oils and tweaks them, then lies about how they were blended by Beth. I just don't understand what you want to get out of this when you won't believe people when they answer your questions.

[portalkat]

All I have to say about this matter is that Beth does not use fragrance oils in her creations. In reference to the "molecule by molecule" quote, I think that it is fair to say that perfumers do not necessarily do all of the own distillations, accords, concretes, etc., but procure them from trusted sources.

 

The quote about etailers blending existing fragrance oils, how one chooses to make their creations available to the public is not indicative of their creativity and totally irrelevant when accessing one's business standards.

 

Oh, the prices are not all the same. There are different prices for the general catalog items, the limited edition scents and the Salon category as well as for the very special LE's like the Blue Moon releases which may contain some more expensive components.

[Lorelai1945]

I'm certain the mall scents...lack creativity. I prefer not to smell like everyone else.

 

Besides, I can not stand how [fancy house, commerical perfumes] are mass marketed with little to no real inspiration.

 

 

I'm sorry but that sentiment makes me really angry.

 

This is exactly what you accuse BPAL of doing. So maybe you should sit back a minute and think of whether we should be just as mad at you.

 

Beth takes enormous amounts of pride in her work and will take YEARS to perfect a blend. It is RIDICULOUSLY insulting to say that she just slaps together fragrance oils like a generic chain candle maker. You should have read the FAQ and About Us sections of the site, and the FAQ section of this board before you started making judgements.

 

 

You know... I would really take what you said more seriously if BPAL didn't produce hundreds of fragrances every year for the exact same (very low) price. The people on Luca Turin's blog had a point about the basic logistics/economics of it all. I'm trying to do the reading suggested by some very nice commenters but so far I'm still left uneasy.

 

And for the record, while I did quote people who compared bpal to velveeta, I never endorsed their view.

 

Who says that more expensive is better? I'm sure a lot of the big fashion-house names jack their prices up because they can. It's the same concept as is a high-fashion t-shirt really worth that much more because it has a name across the front of it? I personally think it's wonderful that we have access to so many different scents at a reasonably affordable price. I'm extremely thankful for it. Maybe Beth just wants to be fair with her pricing and not gouge people. I think it's rather snobbish to think that because something isn't expensive that it isn't good. at this point, after reading several pages of this thread and being increasingly...more heated..I think that Jayne should get her imps and try them. If she likes them, fine. If not, fine. All this disguised put-down of the lab beforehand really makes no sense in the place where all the ardent followers are lurking. Can somebody hand me a grilled cheese?

[starfish327]

Can somebody hand me a grilled cheese?

 

the truly annoying part about all this is that i really do want grilled cheese right now and i can't have it.

[persianmouse]

Can somebody hand me a grilled cheese?

 

 

 

Smells delicious.

[starfish327]

Can somebody hand me a grilled cheese?

 

 

 

Smells delicious.

 

okay now that was just mean...points up.

[Lorelai1945]

Can somebody hand me a grilled cheese?

 

 

 

Smells delicious.

 

[naeelah]

You know... I would really take what you said more seriously if BPAL didn't produce hundreds of fragrances every year for the exact same (very low) price. The people on Luca Turin's blog had a point about the basic logistics/economics of it all. I'm trying to do the reading suggested by some very nice commenters but so far I'm still left uneasy.

 

But those of us who are familiar with BPAL know that Beth does take a lot of time in developing scents. Unreleased prototypes are often made available for testing (and occasionally for purchase) and it is apparent that many of them are in development for years. Most of them don't take quite that long, but she doesn't just whip them up a month before hand.

 

Some scents she can and has made quickly (such as the Crumpet Rebellion for a fashion show a few years ago -- she only had 2 weeks notice). Personally, I take this as a sign of her expertise. She has enough experience to know what will and won't work. I've heard her discussing scent ideas with people in person, and again, it's apparent that she has a good idea of components that do and don't work well together.

 

You'll see that many scents are similar. She produces a lot of variations on different themes. So, here she has a lot of experience with blends in particular families and I suspect she can craft a new variation more quickly than she could something completely new. [1] Also among the hundreds of scents that are released each year are literal repeats -- Snow White, for example, comes back winter after winter, as long as the components are available. So, the sheer volume does not speak of hundreds of new scents.

 

As for the economics: I don't pretend to know anything about BPAL's costs, but major perfumer prices are pretty consistent, within a brand, so I think that's a poor argument. Looking over a page of Guerlain EDPs, for the same size, they're all nearly or exactly the same price. Bpal varies from $15 to $27.50, which is a pretty big variation, percentage-wise. So, it's not as if their prices do not reflect varying costs in production.

 

[1] Whereas your typical perfume house doesn't want to make that many scents a year. Personally I like this repetitive aspect of BPAL because if you want to like a particular scent but it just doesn't work for you, if you're patient, a similar scent that *does* work will eventually surface.

 

------

ETA: Awww, YOU GUYS -- this thread was becoming nice again. We obviously have different opinions, but let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. (I still don't think she's a troll but you certainly won't inspire her to give BPAL and the forum a fair shot by insulting her.)

 

Lastly: I'm pretty sure I'm going to pick up some velveeta on the way home and make a grilled cheese for lunch. MAN, the powers of suggestion!

Edited January 26, 2010 by naeelah

[jayne]

just out of curiosity, why? you still haven't said why that makes a difference to you.

 

and they NOT all the same price. it may not be an astronomical difference but the more complex LEs do run at least 2 to 5 dollars more expensive.

 

okay i'm going to expand on my line of thought on this, with a medium i'm much more comfortable with.

 

i'm a handspinner- i spin my own yarn. you can have fiber A costing $10 an ounce from one 'house' and costing anywhere between $10 and $20 an ounce from other 'houses'. there can be some discernible difference, but generally it's a matter of production cost, not quality. if fiber A comes out of a house where it's say $2 an ounce i might be concerned but i'll try it first before i start saying that it's too cheap to be quality because everyone else sells it at a higher margin.

 

if there's fiber B, with fiber B being a blended line that's being sold at $10 an ounce but everyone else is selling at higher prices based on colors, if anything, i'd be concerned that there was so much variation for essentially the same product, especially if other 'houses' are selling at roughly the same price point (which BPAL is for its market, actually). however, i'm still much more concerned about the quality, not how much other people on ravelry are selling for.

 

I guess it comes down to worrying or at least feeling like I'm being cheated or deceived. I want to buy products from people who care about excellence, not price or prolific production of a new perfume every other day. I don't want to be fooled by creative copy. Maybe Beth is spending day in and day out in the lab dutifully mixing her own essential oils to create violet, musk, amber or sandalwood from scratch. Maybe you all are right. But the blog comments planted a pretty big seed of doubt that I'm having trouble uprooting.

Edited January 26, 2010 by jayne

[persianmouse]

Can somebody hand me a grilled cheese?

 

 

 

Smells delicious.

 

okay now that was just mean...points up.

 

Don't you know I'm a mean mean girl?

 

 

(AHH! I just noticed Pyramid Head in your sigline! Holy crap, that's awesome! And so appropriate! And awesome!)

[Invidiana]

 

Smells delicious.

 

Proof this forum isn't just for evil enabling of the shopping kind...my longtime craving for one of these has officially been switched on to full blast....where are those Kraft singles...

 

Edited January 26, 2010 by Invidiana

[Sapphy]

But you're trusting people who have almost no experience with bpal over people who have a LOT of experience with bpal, including the owner herself. Some people here have been into BPAL since 2003.

[starfish327]

just out of curiosity, why? you still haven't said why that makes a difference to you.

 

and they NOT all the same price. it may not be an astronomical difference but the more complex LEs do run at least 2 to 5 dollars more expensive.

 

okay i'm going to expand on my line of thought on this, with a medium i'm much more comfortable with.

 

i'm a handspinner- i spin my own yarn. you can have fiber A costing $10 an ounce from one 'house' and costing anywhere between $10 and $20 an ounce from other 'houses'. there can be some discernible difference, but generally it's a matter of production cost, not quality. if fiber A comes out of a house where it's say $2 an ounce i might be concerned but i'll try it first before i start saying that it's too cheap to be quality because everyone else sells it at a higher margin.

 

if there's fiber B, with fiber B being a blended line that's being sold at $10 an ounce but everyone else is selling at higher prices based on colors, if anything, i'd be concerned that there was so much variation for essentially the same product, especially if other 'houses' are selling at roughly the same price point (which BPAL is for its market, actually). however, i'm still much more concerned about the quality, not how much other people on ravelry are selling for.

 

I guess it comes down to worrying or at least feeling like I'm being cheated or deceived. I want to buy products from people who care about excellence, not price or prolific production of a new perfume every other day. I don't want to be fooled by creative copy. Maybe Beth is spending day in and day out in the lab dutifully mixing her own essential oils to create violet, musk, amber or sandalwood from scratch. Maybe you all are right. But the blog comments planted a pretty big seed of doubt that I'm having trouble uprooting.

 

the only response that i have to that is that perhaps you need to be reading other reviewers then and try to get a balanced view of reviews that aren't just bpal is horrible (which seems to be the standpoint of the original critic- that it's cheap and for people who don't know any better) or the boards where people are going to tell you that it's great.

 

again though i think what people are trying to suggest is that excellence generally has very little to do with price. reputation maybe and name recognition, but not excellence.

 

in all honesty though it really does sound that even if you love the imps that you get that you're never going to be comfortable with the company, and to each his own. i think everyone probably has at least product that they're like that with (you'll never get me in the same room as an iphone, i think it's all hype).

[Yvaine]

Isn't there a thread somewhere about how new EU trade restrictions on EOs and such are going to impact the perfume world? Annick Goutal, IIRC, was mentioned as one who stood to be very hurt by the new trade rules, but anyway--at a business level it stands to really impact the perfume world because there is so much trade in components and that trade is central to the production of traditional perfumery. But anyway--the bottom line is that everyone's getting things from elsewhere and I would wager it's extremely to find a perfumery that really builds fragrances molecule by molecule without reaching outside.

 

I do remember a round of discons when I first came to bpal that included a lot of scents with a grapefruit note, as the grapefruit crops in Florida had been devastated that year by hurricanes (I think it was hurricanes). Anyway--the grapefruit note became unavailable or priced out of range, and the scents were temporarily discontinued until the grapefruit oil was replenished. This would not have been the case if it was a completely manufactured note.

 

As far as the price point, I think while it's fair to say that some blends by all rights should cost more, other blends could cost less. By not discounting some oils, capital is generated to make up the cost of the pricier oils and thus the price point can stay fairly stable. The base costs have risen over the years, and the cost to the consumer has as well, so I don't think that it's impossible that the Lab is able to operate a profitable business using quality components while maintaining standardized pricing schedules.

[starfish327]

Can somebody hand me a grilled cheese?

 

 

 

Smells delicious.

 

okay now that was just mean...points up.

 

Don't you know I'm a mean mean girl?

 

 

(AHH! I just noticed Pyramid Head in your sigline! Holy crap, that's awesome! And so appropriate! And awesome!)

 

thank you. i am full out scary fan girl. check my photobucket- i did one for the great sword of war and one of my gore shock icons is a medical monster from SH2.