Delirium1009

In bottle/imp: Peppery cola.

Immediately on skin: Whew… this smells like cola, pepper, and honey. It’s a little… bitter, I guess, from the honey, but also syrupy sweet. Then the pepper adds this sharp spice and somehow I smell cola behind that (I think it’s the sandalwood plus pepper). Wow, this is bad on me.

After a little while: This is not nice on me at all. It’s a cloying, bitter, honey and pepper combo. So not nice.

Overall Impressions: This is just a blend that doesn’t work on me. My chemistry completely butchers it. It manages to be bitter and rubbery at the same time. Not good.

In bottle/imp: Salty vanilla, that morphs into the scent of a black jellybean.

Immediately on skin: At first sniff, this smells like some sort of yankee candle… cookie dough maybe. It’s almost like vanilla, but with a salty note. Then as I sniff that note morphs into strong licorice, or maybe just short of it. It’s… odd.

After a little while: This scent is just odd. It’s a bit like salty vanilla licorice, now with a little bit of pretty pink florals mixing in. Like flowery candy next to a big black jellybean and a piece of vanilla salt water taffy.

Overall Impressions: This scent is very interesting. It has these conflicting notes of vanilla, licorice, and pretty pink florals that just don’t mesh to my nose. I keep sniffing it because it’s intriguing, but I don’t think I could wear it.

In bottle/imp: Smokey, herbal creaminess.

Immediately on skin: The note I mistook for herbs in the decant is actually the lilac, drawing over this blend with a very cool feel. It’s laid over smoky, creamy vanilla and a touch of warm tonka. The ho wood and galbanum kind of deepen the scent, taking it away from foody vanilla and making it a touch creamy, but also deep and sexy.

After a little while: This is woody, smoky, and slightly perfumey. Lots of vanilla and rich tonka with a thin blue floral mist of lilac wafting above. Deep and rich and lovely!

Overall Impressions: Ah, what a lovely scent! The lilac floats above the richer, creamier, smokier notes. It’s all blended nicely, smoky and woody vanilla with an overtone of lilac. So pretty, and a bit like Haloes.

In bottle/imp: A bit of creaminess, ending with a bit of citrus and snow.

Immediately on skin: This is a touch creamy and very smooth, with just a little bit of florals and a bite of citrus and light snow.

After a little while: This gets a bit sweeter as I wear it. It’s a soft, pretty scent. It smells of vanilla musk or amber, a bit of perfume-y florals, and a touch of citrus and snow. It’s warm and sweet with a touch of cold.

Overall Impressions: This is so pretty. The olive blossom is smooth and floral, and blends with an almost vanilla-y musk. The lily comes out slightly, as this has a touch of perfumeyness blanketing the whole scent, and it ends with a kiss of the citrus and snow. Very pretty, and my favorite thus far of the Luper scents.

In bottle/imp: Cool, herbal florals, dry musk, and a bit of spice and smoke at the very end.

Immediately on skin: The wisteria and lilac come out full force, cool, smooth, blue florals. Behind that lingers very dry musk, and some herbal lavender. It’s very cool and calming.

After a little while: This scent is still mostly lilac and wisteria, but those notes don’t seem as lifelike to me now, and more like perfume. There’s just a touch of warm tea, and a hint of herbal lavender. This is cool and floral, but watery without being aquatic.

Overall Impressions: This is a very floral, cool scent. The wisteria and lilac are the strongest notes and at first they seem very realistic, but they settle into more of a cool perfume scent after a while. That’s when the tea comes out a bit more, adding a bit of almost a smokey/watery feel to the blend. Pretty, but a bit on the “cool” side for me.

In bottle/imp: This is very tart and herbal with a light breath of mint.

Immediately on skin: This is very much an herb scent, with a large amount of thyme and a little bit of mint, with the currant and cranberry kind of smoothing the scent from the background. It’s quite sharp and “high” smelling to me.

After a little while: Berry! Refreshing, tart, slightly minty berry. This reminds me a lot of Baneberry, only with a touch of mint and some dry woods kind of dancing above.

Overall Impressions: This scent starts out all herbs and a little mint with a hint of berry, but ends up with a lot of berry and a hint of mint and thyme with dry woods finishing it. It’s quite pretty and upbeat, but light. It has a nice mixture of notes that breaks up the tart, sweet berry.

In bottle/imp: Cool and damp vetiver and metal with a hint of leather.

Immediately on skin: This smells damp, like an underground stone tunnel. It has something a bit smokey, almost like vetiver or leather. It smells cold and almost mildew-y, and quite “dirty,” without an actual dirt note.

After a little while: This smells pretty much the same as it did at first, like a damp stone cave with a hint of something lightly smoky and warm, like vetiver or leather. It’s very dark and almost humid smelling.

Overall Impressions: I don’t love the lab’s metal notes, but I enjoy them. Unfortunately I don’t get them here at all. This smells like damp stone with something smoky peeking through. This is a dark stone tunnel scent, rather sinister and creepy.

In bottle/imp: Citrus, moonflower, and something a bit jasmine-like.

Immediately on skin: This is a citrusy, cool floral. It has a hint of blue-smelling moonflower, something a bit soapy (lily perhaps?), and a hint of grassy green citrus.

After a little while: This blends together completely after a while into a cool floral with a bit of jasmine in the background. I definitely smell moonflower, but I’m not sure about any of the other floral notes. It’s smooth and cool, almost like a night time floral.

Overall Impressions: This blend is pretty, and has a lot of floral notes going on, especially after it settles and dries. It’s a little refreshing and smells like it has a very blue tint to it. Pretty, but not me.

In bottle/imp: A definite mix of ambergris and rubbery coconut.

Immediately on skin: This smells of rubbery coconut with a lot of ambergris and a bit of musk. It’s dry and smooth, with a bit of a creamy feel but also a definite “oceany” feel from the ambergris.

After a little while: This still smells strongly of rubbery coconut with maybe a little touch of ylang ylang, but all the other notes are gone. It’s creamy and very smooth.

Overall Impressions: This scent was one I was so excited about, but it fell flat on my skin. At first it’s all rubbery coconut with a touch of musk and a lot of ambergris adding an oceany feel. Then as it dries down, it’s all coconut. Ah, well.

In bottle/imp: A bright fruitiness, almost like citrus, with a hint of wine and finishing with a bit of creaminess.

Immediately on skin: This scent is rich but fruity. I get a blast of fruitiness first, and it’s thick with the citrus of the mandarin lightening it a bit. Over the top is honey with a bit of powdery vanilla. This is very assertive and sweet, with a nice richness grounding it underneath, which may be the tobacco. This is reminding me of Mad Kate a bit with the fruit/honey feel.

After a little while: This still smells very fruity… sort of a rich fruit scent with a slight hint of citrus lifting it up, giving it a glowing edge, and powdery honey over the top. It’s quite sweet, especially up close.

Overall Impressions: This scent is very nice, considering honey blends rarely work on me. It’s not that bitter powdery rubberiness I usually get, but it’s still a bit overly sweet on me. The other parts of this blend are nice though; it’s sort of a rich, bright fruitiness that I wasn’t expecting. Gorgeous, but not for me.

In bottle/imp: Baby powder with a hint of warm spice.

Immediately on skin: This smells clean and powdery, with a hint of sandalwood and sweet spice in the background. Sandalwood scented baby powder, perhaps.

After a little while: This gets even more powdery as I wear it. It’s all baby powder now with just a hint of sandalwood. Very disappointing!

Overall Impressions: This is just too powdery on me, and too dry. I don’t get any creaminess from the tonka and there’s only a hint of the nutmeg at the beginning. Ah, well.

In bottle/imp: Vetiver and sweet florals with a fruitiness, almost like cherry.

Immediately on skin: This smells of floral cherry, though very green as well with a slight twinge of vetiver lurking. The cherry-like note could be something else… it’s fruity but red with a distinct tartness. Overall this scent seems very high with not a lot of deep notes.

After a little while: The vetiver comes back out after this dries a little and really takes over the blend from then on. To me it smells like a lot of dry black musk and vetiver with some light florals and a hint of that tart fruit in the background.

Overall Impressions: This starts out very fruity and floral, but after it dries it definitely becomes a very dark and sinister blend. The vetiver and musk are very dry, with just enough of the floral and fruit notes peeking through to give it a slight feminine tone.

In bottle/imp: Cake! Almond! Chocolate! Fruit! In that order.

Immediately on skin: This scent is hard to pin down. It’s cakey, but not heavy at all. It’s got a whispy, sugary feel to it overall with a cakey overtone and hints of chocolate and fruit. It almost has a powdery feel over the whole thing, but it smells juicy and wet, not dry. I think that may be the chocolate.

After a little while: This smells a lot like cotton candy now with a little bit of cake poking through and perhaps a little white chocolate. Oh, and there’s a very juicy candied fruit overtone to the entire blend.

Overall Impressions: Imagine a glass cake display. There’s spun cotton candy, vanilla cake, chocolate fudge, candied fruit, and white chocolate dipped bonbons under the glass, all dusted with powdered suger. Then you realize that the whole glass covering is actually crystal clear, lightly fruity hard candy. That’s what this blend smells like.

Here's some relevant posts from earlier in this thread (I edited them down slightly so that the parts that are relevant to synthetics in BPAL are easier to spot, but if you click on the arrow in the top of the post you can go and read the whole thing, if you want). (Also, I was wrong before - there are a couple of prototypes with synthetics around, some of which came from a forum raffle and some of which were iirc auctioned on ebay.)

 

I think it was removed when Beth started experimenting with aldehydes (the synth note in some unreleased blends like...Toxin, I believe?). Since those blends never made it to the catalogue, the response you got from CS makes sense. I seem to recall Beth saying something about the FAQ needing to be updated.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the full list of prototypes in circulation that may contain aldehydes are Toxin, Nihil, and Zero. They were involved in the forum fundraiser raffle last year. Nothing currently on offer from BPAL contains synthetics, or the Lab would be very clear about saying so.

 

 

Btw, I did email the lab, and here is the response:

 

Black Phoenix uses no synthetics, no fillers and no garbage. All of our scents are 100% naturally derived. With the exception of our honey products, BPAL perfumes are vegan. Our 'civet' and 'ambergris' are bouquets, and thus, are composite scents created from plant-derived perfume oils combined to best approximate the scent.[/b] Black Phoenix is entirely cruelty-free, as our four dogs, many fish, and resident lab cat will attest.

 

While we use no preservatives, our oil blends will last for over one year, if they are cared for correctly. Please keep all of our products in a cool, dark place to maximize their shelf life.

 

Unfortunately, we cannot further divulge our ingredients due to protecting our recipes from competitors.

 

The revision of the faq has been in the works for about a year. I've been insanely busy at work and in my personal life, so the revision ended up on the backburner. Kathy and Bill have a list about 60 pages long of things I should address there, and I'm still working on it. Honestly, it isn't going to get done any time soon. Sincerest apologies if that bothers people, but I just don't have any time at all right now.

 

After the sales of the Synthetic Line prototypes, I could no longer state that we have never sold anything that doesn't contain synthetics, so I pulled the statement completely lest there be a misunderstanding.

 

When I'm not bombed by a million BPAL and BPTP issues and the imminent birth of Junior, I'll get back to revising the faq. =)

I thought that this answered the question about all natural or not pretty well.

Thanks for clearly that up, Beth. It's good to know I'm supporting someone like you.

 

I'm sorry if my post came off as accusatory and not investigatory, but that was not my intention.

 

I do think that it would be helpful to have these things noted on the website with the very direct wording you just used in your post. In Luca Turin's blog, a lot of people pointed to the lab's ambiguous wording as an indication that something was awry. And this thread (going back to 2004!) seemed to have a lot of back and forth, with statements being made and then retracted, and no clear, conclusive answer from the lab staff. Even longtimers seemed to be very confused about the source of the oil.

 

 

So, to be clear... BPAL "purchases component oils from many, many small companies" and none of those oils are pre-fabricated fragrance/aromatic oils. BPAL is cruelty free. It is vegan, with exception to the honey products.

 

I read your post multiple times and I didn't see this address so if it has been, I apologize for seeming dense but... It is correct to say the oils are all-natural, right? That none of the component oils used for perfumes currently being sold on the website are synthetic? I don't care about these things but there has been a lot of confusion earlier in the thread, before I joined and it would be useful to clear that up now.

 

again, thanks for the response. it was illuminating.

You are the reason this whole conversation came up again. You brought it up. You started an entire thread because you were nervous about your purchase, and asked for more info. Other people wondered, I'm sure, but you definitely did "care."

Beth already gave you a much more in-depth, targeted response than I would expect most people would, as so much of the info was already out there if one were to just look for it. But that's not enough? You need to keep poking her?

There is no way you're not being intentionally dense about this. Really.

I would have to ask if you have hard proof that Guerlain uses natural oils? How much alcohol does Guerlain put into their perfume? How does it react to your skin?

 

I don't mind that Guerlain uses synthetics, but they are synthetics crafted by perfumers. I personally believe there is artistry to it. But alternatively, I can appreciate a small-scale perfumer who blends natural essential oils. I value that side of things too and definitely see the appeal. But it's that middle ground, of pre-blended synthetic oils that are found in Yankee Candles, that I want to avoid.

 

By the way, alcohol has never bothered my skin and I don't notice it after the first minute or two, although I know that isn't true for everybody.

I can assure you that there is no possible way in hell that bpal uses the same fragrance oils that you would find in something like Yankee Candle.

And with that I'm done. This trolling is not worth my time.

If you don't believe what the lab has said thus far about the sources of their components, then I doubt what any customer could say would sway you.

This post reminds me of the paraben complaints always popping up on Lush. Someone with no posts comes on, posts a bunch of info about how they bought the product and OMG it's not 100% natural, and how they're so disappointed. The truth is, bpal is fabulous to a lot of people, and not worth the money to others. I find it totally unique and a labor of love on the part of Beth and all the labbies. They're truly wonderful people with a fabulous product that I'm PROUD to spend money on.

But if you'd rather believe a few dissenters before you even sniff the stuff, go for it. It's your decision. I still think your post is super rude though.

ETA:

I don't think it matters if BPAL makes the oils they use. I paint and certainly don't make my own paints. I could, but why would anyone want to waste the time when they could focus on mixing what's already there?

 

I guess I've just been immersed in the world of traditional perfumery for awhile. People take a lot of pride in craftsmanship, on assembling their perfumes molecule by molecule or using the finest essential oils. Maybe I am being a bit prejudiced...

If you don't think this is the case with Beth and the labbies, then you know nothing about this company. They've stated time and time again that their oils are natural. Some are made from accords, but that's how all the big companies do scents that you can't get pure oils of (like do you think that CB uses REAL meat to make their Roast Beef accord?).

Not saying this is how the lab does it, but here is what CBIHP's site (who you say you're a fan of) says about synthetic accords, which they themselves use:

"“Synthetic” is a misleading term. By no means does it mean “bad”. All scent is in fact “synthesized”. These specially designed accords capture things that are not found easily in nature or in some cases not found there at all!

Synthetic accords can actually be made from organic materials – we can use “nature identical materials” to create flowers – like Honeysuckle or Wild Violet. Or these accords can be like completely inorganic like Doll Head and Soccer Ball.

All the accords I create however must perfectly capture the scent of whatever it’s supposed to be whether it’s Cheesecake or Cellophane Tape!"

It looks to me like you might just have it out for bpal.

Perversion, perhaps? Tonka is a creamy note that can sometimes smell like vanilla.

Okay I know this is a crap cameraphone picture, and please excuse my fat fingers, uneven talons, and potentially questionable taste in literature, but is this the original Black Lace label? This is the bottle I received from Dark Delicacies today, and everyone keeps saying 'black and green', but this label is most assuredly not green at all. The lace MIGHT be bluish, and it's certainly very pretty, but no green to be found. I ordered my bottle pretty early, I think. Not that it's really important, just curiosity.

 

 

edited cause i cn grammar gud.

 

Yes, that definitely looks like the original Black Lace label.

It's ALMOST a match. The original was more of a teal, where this one is a slate grey/blue.

In bottle/imp: Sweet tarts mixed with grainy caramel.

Immediately on skin: This smells… not so good on me. I get the caramel blending with the coconut, which smells like grainy, syrupy sweetness soaked into an old cardboard box. Over that bit is the fruit, especially the blood orange and plum. It’s clashing quite a bit on my skin.

After a little while: This seems to have gotten a little better, but there’s still that annoying dirty-smelling note under everything, blending into the fruit. Mostly I now smell the pimento, plum, and a little of the orange. I also get just a little sweet florals.

Overall Impressions: Unfortunately there’s something to this scent that just doesn’t smell right to me. There’s an undertone to it that smells sort of rotten or dirty. I think it’s the caramel and coconut with all the bright fruits. The fruity notes in this are actually quite nice, though. Mostly I smell plum and pimento, but the orange comes through nicely at first, and I get hints of sweet floral notes.

In bottle/imp: Candied cherries.

Immediately on skin: This smells like pastry filled with candied cherries. Not really maraschino cherries, but I guess they’re called glace cherries like in the description. After just a moment though the apricot comes in and drowns out a lot of that cherry scent. There’s also more of a buttered pastry note after a minute or two.

After a little while: This smells like apricot lotion with a little almond now. The cherry and pastry notes disappeared completely, and left me with a creamy but slightly plastic-y apricot scent.

Overall Impressions: I think I need to try this scent in a scent locket because I love the glace cherry scent I get from it in the decant with just a little buttered pastry. As it sits on my skin, however, it totally morphs into an apricot lotion scent with just a touch of almond. So sad…

In bottle/imp: Black pepper cookies with a hint of lemon?

Immediately on skin: This smells like a base of sugar cookies with a good dose of black pepper added. It’s slightly sweet underneath, but the top of the scent is all peppery and spicy.

After a little while: This turns into something rather, well, “meh” on me. It smells like pepper and salted nuts. Slightly toasty and peppery, but not really overly sweet.

Overall Impressions: In the decant this smelled like peppered sugar cookies, but it turned into pepper and toasted nuts. It’s interesting, but not really fabulous on me. It has a neat toasted scent to it, however.

In bottle/imp: Snow and ozone, with a hint of mint and warm, dusty chrysanthemums.

Immediately on skin: This blend smells like cold air with a tinge of ozone and mint with a golden warmth wafting above. The golden bit is dry and spicy, and almost even dusty. It’s a nice contrast to icy part of the blend.

After a little while: The mint in this has settled down a little, but the iciness is still the most assertive part of the blend. The golden warmth is still lying gently over it, bringing to mind yellow sunlight streaming through an ice frosted window. The chrysanthemum note is slightly spicy and blended with a soft, warm amber.

Overall Impressions: The snow note in this is so lovely. There’s a bit of ozone and mint in this at first, but it died down pretty quickly after I applied it on my skin. This scent is a perfect blending of icy cold air, golden amber, and a hint of spicy chrysanthemums. It’s perfectly balanced between lightly warm and sweet, and cold and chilly.

In bottle/imp: This smells like oats and carrot sweetened up with something thick and rich (but not honey because bpal honey doesn’t usually smell good to me, and this smells quite nice).

Immediately on skin: This smells like super hearty, healthy oat-packed cookies. There’s a lot of hay and hazelnuts, which smell almost like oatmeal when combined, and some pulpy carrot with a bit of sweet honey drizzled on top.

After a little while: This scent has gotten a bit fruitier, like soft dried berries with oats and a bit of carrot. It’s soft and warm with a slight nuttiness.

Overall Impressions: This smells foodie, but not in a bakery way at all. It almost smells like oat and carrot muffins with a few berries added in. Honey is a death note on me, and I don’t get it from this blend at all. Overall, this is slightly sweet and warm, nutty and slightly fruity.

In bottle/imp: Rose, creamy almond, and baby powder.

Immediately on skin: This is so light on me, but what I can smell is bpal’s snow note, plus some herbal rose and a bit of almond. This scent is a bit powdery on my skin.

After a little while: This smells like vanilla, almond, and fake roses with a hint of snow. This isn’t as bad on me now as it was at first, but it smells like one of those rose scented dolls they had in the 80s. It’s slightly plastic-smelling and rubbery.

Overall Impressions: I had such high hopes for this scent, but unfortunately the vanilla in this blend is the kind that turns to plastic on my skin. I’m left with rose-almond plastic with a little snow in the background.